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Transcript of DVC with Dep. NSA James Jeffrey and German Journalists

Amb. Jeffrey:  (Beginning inaudible).  But in Baghdad, for example, we now see more and more neighborhoods that are at least partially returning to normal life.  In the city we have repeatedly supported actions against Shiite extremists and militant groups that are supported by Iran.  To be honest, we are also always frustrated about the inability of the Iraqi government to push through many laws and other actions.  But despite the slow reforms in Baghdad we observe many political and economic developments in other embassies [sic] provided that there is sufficient security.  Building up the Iraqi military is also one of the necessary conditions.  Here we see progress, at least with the army.  There are still many big problems with the police.  Regarding the Petraeus report President Bush announced yesterday evening that in many areas we can reach the same level of security with fewer U.S. soldiers.  That means a reduction of approximately 6,000 soldiers by the end of the year. 

(Pause).  Are you still there?

With more success in the field and more Iraqi soldiers we will be able to withdraw even more units as of mid 2008, but so far there is no exact schedule and there are no concrete figures for this additional reduction because the situation could change and Petraeus need flexibility to react in an emergency.  The condition for additional troop reductions is therefore more success.  We are also expecting more support from the international community in rebuilding Iraq.  I would also like to stress that the future of Iraq concerns us all.  A collapse of this state would not just be a disaster for the Iraqis and us Americans but for the whole region and Europe as well.  Thank you. 

Alexander Szandar, Spiegel:  One question would be what this increased assistance of the international community could look like and what the German contribution could be?

Amb. Jeffrey:  Yes.  At the most, there is already plenty within the EU framework that happens and could happen in Baghdad.  The EU is very present with constitutional state programs, for example, and that should be increased.  There are also more formal institutions and we say the Iraq Compact, that is about 40 countries that have committed to paint Iraqi schools and increase foreign aid.  And this goes altogether very well.  There will be a neighbors conference that will take place in Istanbul in a couple of months and we would like to see as many nations as possible there.  In addition, there is an increased UN presence with the new UN resolution that was voted on six weeks ago.  One can’t do too much under the current conditions of violence but in many places for example in the north and in parts in the south there are good possibilities for development and the World Bank is also present there and we hope to get international engagement in Iraq through all these possibilities. 

Stefan Löwenstein, FAZ:  Mr. Ambassador, there is also a negligible German contribution, that is to say the training of Iraqi (inaudible) and truck drivers.  Do you think this is sufficient?  Do you believe that this training that basically took place in the United Emirates -- do you believe that it should take place on Iraqi territory and to have a stronger impact?   

Amb. Jeffrey:  We basically assume that it is always better to conduct training of soldiers, training of police on the spot.  The reason for this is first the costs and second [the fact that] the presence in the country sends the signal to all, including the Iraqis, that the international community supports Iraq.  And that is very important.  To bring people to the United Arab Emirates does not only cost much but it also does not send that signal.  I do not want to criticize that.  Every contribution is helpful but in general we would like to see more presence in the country.

Amb. Jeffrey:  There is no concrete connection between the reasons for troop reductions in Iraq and other military purposes.  But indeed independent of what is happening in Iraq right now President Bush decided to build up the number of ground units in the U.S. army and the marines.  We will have more brigades and marine regiments in our forces one way or the other and of course fewer in Iraq.  That is why we have more flexibility in general.  Whether we will use this flexibility in Afghanistan or in NATO I cannot tell you right now but flexibility is always a plus under the current international circumstances today.      

Eva Corell, BR:  Ambassador Jeffrey, when you talk about progress where do you see it and which objectives set before the war have been achieved?

Amb. Jeffery:   As I said on the national level the reform is partially at a standstill, that is to say different laws have partly not been voted on by the parliament, the petroleum law and the efforts to introduce a different style and enforce different steps regarding the Sunnis.  We see limited progress on this national level.  But it is indeed very different in the field.  That is to say, in one location, now a famous location west of Baghdad, Abu Graib, the central government accepted more than 2,000, almost 2,000 police recruits of the Sunni tribes.  Many of these people were against us and against the Iraqi army in the past but nevertheless they are now part of the forces and this is some kind of reconciliation on a local level.  We see many similar developments in Anbar, in the Salin province northwest of Baghdad and also in Bakubar northeast of Baghdad.  That’s why we see political progress on the spot, Sunnis, Kurds, and Shiites coming together politically even though progress on the national level is not advancing that fast.  We see political developments there but as I said these political developments require sufficient security and secondly in the long run we need to make these steps more specific on a national level. 

Stephan Löwenstein, FAZ:   Mr. Ambassador, has the United States made mistakes in Iraq and if yes, which? 

Amb. Jeffrey:  You know, I have made mistakes when I was in Iraq.  I do not want to judge my government or my country.  I would just like to say that there are very different opinions on this question.  Did we make mistakes during the Korean War?  Did we make mistakes in the first Gulf War in 1991?  Historians can have interesting discussions about this.  It is my job to strengthen the progress we have seen over the last months and work with it. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  How long-term do you think is this progress?  The integration of Sunni police units for example?  Could this not disappear really fast when American and Sunni security forces jointly kick out terrorists and then the Sunnis fight against the U.S. military just as before? 

Amb. Jeffrey:  You are right.  In the past we saw progress in certain areas and it rescinded in the end.  We now believe that this progress will be firmer.  Why?  First because our strategy has changed.  As I said our priority now and the priority of the Iraqi government is the security of the population.  There were a lot of competing duties for our military and for the Iraqis in the past.  Now it is clear that security of the population is the prerequisite for everything and that helped us and resulted in the development of neighborhoods so that we could see progress on a local level.  I believe that as long as we have this security we will see more progress.  That is why we cannot [say] at this point how fast we would reduce our soldiers because it depends on the security of the population.  If we see more progress here then we can reduce our soldiers more quickly, the number of soldiers more quickly.  If not we have to proceed more slowly, but we have to wait. 

Damir Fras, Berliner Zeitung:  Mr. Ambassador, you said that you would like to see more presence of the international community in Iraq.  Asking more specifically, do you want German police and military trainers in Iraq?

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  The petroleum law.  You addressed it already.  When do you think it will really pass?  It has been announced several times since the beginning of this year and debated in parliament.  Does Washington have a timeline for that?

Amb. Jeffrey:  I cannot give you a timeline but I have to emphasize that the Iraqi government has indeed paid hundreds of millions of dollars already from oil exports on a practical level, for example 200 million dollars in the province of Anbar last year and therefore we do not see so much progress on a national level with laws than on the spot where the government and the provincial councils work together much better with these neighborhoods.  In the long run we would like to build on these events and enforce laws -- or the Iraqi parliament enforces these laws.  But what is important now is that the money from oil exports gets to the people and this is happening. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  But last year alone, 19 billion dollars of oil exports could not be spent because the government was not able to do so because the security conditions are the way they are. 

Amb. Jeffrey:  The security conditions were also a reason for the ability of this government in the past.  To spend money for some purpose, to work with money bureaucratically was limited and therefore we used many civil advisors in these ministries in the past, not just Americans but also other international organizations and countries to improve just that very problem, to improve the capabilities.  And we now see an increased ability of the government to push money through the system to the people, or to use it for the food program or as capital. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  What would be the most pressing issues that need to be solved – economically?

Amb. Jeffrey:  You mean aside from security?

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  Yes. 

Amb. Jeffrey:  The first issue of course is to build up the Iraqi army and train it professionally.  The second issue is to further (inaudible) on a national level.  Then there is the petroleum law of course, amnesty, and many other issues, de-Baathification and they all depend on how one brings these groups together.  As Ambassador Crocker and also General Petraeus said in the last few days there is a dispute about the market in Iraq, a dispute about resources among the different ethnic and religious groups.  And therefore we all, the international community as well as the Americans and the Iraqis themselves, must try to turn this dispute into a peaceful argument instead of going ahead with weapons, which happens sometimes.

Stephan Löwenstein, FAZ:  Mr. Ambassador, do you see that Iraq may have an impact on Afghanistan.  People sometimes talk about an Iraqization as far as the methods of the insurgents are concerned but also regarding the personnel of the terrorists.

Amb. Jeffrey:  Yes, we are now concerned because weapons from Iran have increasingly emerged in Afghanistan during the last months.  Of course there is a connection between Al Qaida in Iraq and the Al Qaida headquarters on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and that is worrying.  But I would like to stress that weapons from Iran could really be a problem because have seen more and more weapons from Iran in Iraq and even more new and dangerous ones.  Therefore we talked and negotiated with representatives of the Iranian government three times during the last six months.  In Baghdad as well as in Sharm-El-Sheik, but so far without success. 

Stephan Löwenstein, FAZ:  If I may ask, so you see that there is a danger that more powerful and more dangerous weapons from Iran could strengthen the insurgents in Afghanistan? 

Amb. Jeffrey:  I would like to be cautious regarding Afghanistan because I do not know it as well as Iraq.  Strengthening is perhaps not so appropriate but it could be that more weapons from Iran could really have a great impact on the Taliban uprising.  Therefore we are now trying to prevent the supply of weapons diplomatically and also with military action in Afghanistan. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  If you say right now that you already negotiated with the Iranian government three times last month, can we then expect that a high-ranking American representative will meet with a high-ranking Iranian representative during this conference in Istanbul?  Perhaps on the foreign minister level or at least on the undersecretary level? 

Amb. Jeffrey:  There are no specific plans right now but I do not want to rule out anything.  It is absolutely possible that we will have further contact with Iranian government representatives let us say on an expert or ambassadorial level.  That is absolutely possible, even in Istanbul.  Under the condition that nothing specific has been planned at the moment.  But I cannot confirm the higher level. 

Stephan Löwenstein, FAZ:  Would you say that the invasion of the Americans or the coalition in Iraq contained terrorism in the world on the whole?

Amb. Jeffrey:  I did not hear the beginning of your question.

Stephan Löwenstein, FAZ:  Would you say that the invasion of the coalition in Iraq contained terrorism in the world?

Amb. Jeffrey:  I would say that the invasion of the coalition in Iraq settled the threat from the east in the end.  And this threat does not just consist of terrorism but also of countries like Iran, countries like Syria, of other groups:  PKK, (inaudible), well groups that are not religious terrorists but conduct politics using violent means.  And one reason for the invasion of the American coalition forces in Iraq was to do something against just this threat.  It is interesting that this threat is or could be connection with weapons of mass destruction. 

Eva Corell, BR:  People in Germany are concerned that even Europeans get terrorist training in camps in Iraq.  Do you see that this has increased over the last years, that this has become a larger threat or how would you assess that?

Amb. Jeffrey:  I have not seen any proof that Europeans, with the exception of a few cases we experienced in Jordan, that terrorists were trained in Iraq for missions outside Iraq.  There is a great problem in Pakistan, as you have just experienced in Germany, but not in Iraq. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  As you have just mentioned Pakistan yourself do you think that the training of terrorists can be contained there or has it been contained or do you believe that more and more young people look for training there and then travel to Europe or the United States to conduct attacks?

Amb. Jeffrey: It could be contained and it must be contained.  It has not yet been contained or contained sufficiently.

Eva Corell, BR:  Perhaps on the most recent case.  I do not know if you can say anything about it.  The three Germans that were arrested and were trained in Pakistan-- that was also possible due to the cooperation with U.S. authorities.  Is this kind of cooperation a classic example, a good example, or could it be better?

Amb. Jeffrey:  It is a good example for the cooperation of our services and we of course hope for more successes, but I cannot say more. 

Mathias Brueggmann, Handelsblatt:  You touched on military cooperation, on training efforts, but you also talked about foreign aid earlier.  What else can you imagine that other western countries and American partners like Germany could do in Iraq?

Amb. Jeffrey:  First of all, there is a lack of ability to lead the new Iraqi democracy and the new Iraqi government through complicated procedures, to work professionally, to train officials, to introduce official measures and so on.  That is a problem.  We just talked about the problems that existed last year when one tried to get money to the population.  That has partly been improved but there is still a need for training and the development of state structures.  The World Bank plays a role, the UN, UNDP and as I said the EU in the areas of justice and police, but the more the better.       

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